Don't feel jinxed by what I'm gonna say, but I really don't like seeing you adding "folkloric"data as you are doing now for under-strength and not independant Slovenia...
Don't you think there's already too much to do with real full-strength teams (for which what you add is really great) ?
first of all, never worry about mentioning critical points, in which we may have different opinions. Such discussions are helping to raise awareness on which fields I focuse and which are fields may should left behind. Also it helps to stop doing the same mistakes repeatingly, or that different users are applying different standards. In general, I think we are discussion much too less here on NFT.
Now, coming to Slovenia. Checking their FA (NZS) webpage's national team matches list the very first match is in 1990 against Bosnia & Herzegovina. So, that match is a must for me. Clearly, it was (shortly) pre-independent, just like the following 1991-friendly vs Croatia, but Slovenia feature all their top players who formed their modern-day national team. Besides 3 players, all the others who saw action against Bosnia & Herzegovina had future appearances for the national team. That's why I decided to add the match 1990-12-08 vs Bosnia & Herzegovina even if the Bosnian side was a bit more tricky,
When doing research for this match, I hit on this article listing 3 further historic matches which could be seen as precessor of the Slovenian national team facing (independent) opponent's full senior teams. Especially, the match vs France in 1921 is seen as the historic birth of Slovenian national team football, see further article. It tells also much about history. The "Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes" has just been created in 1918 after the brokedown of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and again Serbs, Croats and Slovenes were forced into a single state, besides their national interests. The tour of the France national team, makes this even more evident, as they played Slovenia, Croatia and Serbia in 3 separate matches, instead of facing a unified "Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes"-team. The lack of independence is also the reason here why the France FA (FFF) haven't count these matches as official, but against Slovenia they started 8 players who got further (and official) caps. From the 3 uncapped players we have the reserve keeper of the 1920 Olympics. I'd also like to add the matches vs Croatia and Serbia, but couldn't find yet decent sources. Maybe, these matches are also seen different in Croatia and Serbia, but for Slovenia it really mattered. That's why I created 1921-06-23 vs France
Also, I did 1968-04-03 vs Austria like mentioned in the article. Here I may have been a bit over the topic, as the Slovenian team consisted also several "naturalized" players from different Yugoslavian states playing for Slovenian clubs. But in the end, it was a selection of NK Maribor and Olimpija which have been the only two Slovenian clubs in the 1st Yugoslavian league by that time. Besides Branko Oblak none have seen (later) full Yugoslavian caps. On the Austrian side, we only have players who collect further (and official) Austrian senior caps. So, I followed the article here and listed also this match. I'd also like to add the 1956 match vs China, but as we aren't much progressed with Chinese data from the 50s wanted to give it a wait to be better able to value the China line-up.
As we have the possibility to list all these matches as "non-FIFA", we can make it clear, that these aren't official matches for different reasons. Still, it has been matches from two full senior national teams of states which were independent (opponents) or became independent later (Slovenia). Thanks to the "non-FIFA"-section users can make their own conclussions.
What I learnt from your post, is that I won't investigate further here, and overall, not taking in account (possible) inner-yugoslavian matches like the 1945 Yugoslav Football Tournament, or similiar matches.
When you have such topics, never hesitate to contact me, either here on my wall or by personal message.
archivist
Hi !
Don't feel jinxed by what I'm gonna say, but I really don't like seeing you adding "folkloric"data as you are doing now for under-strength and not independant Slovenia...
Don't you think there's already too much to do with real full-strength teams (for which what you add is really great) ?
SiebenW
Hello,
first of all, never worry about mentioning critical points, in which we may have different opinions. Such discussions are helping to raise awareness on which fields I focuse and which are fields may should left behind. Also it helps to stop doing the same mistakes repeatingly, or that different users are applying different standards. In general, I think we are discussion much too less here on NFT.
Now, coming to Slovenia. Checking their FA (NZS) webpage's national team matches list the very first match is in 1990 against Bosnia & Herzegovina. So, that match is a must for me. Clearly, it was (shortly) pre-independent, just like the following 1991-friendly vs Croatia, but Slovenia feature all their top players who formed their modern-day national team. Besides 3 players, all the others who saw action against Bosnia & Herzegovina had future appearances for the national team. That's why I decided to add the match 1990-12-08 vs Bosnia & Herzegovina even if the Bosnian side was a bit more tricky,
When doing research for this match, I hit on this article listing 3 further historic matches which could be seen as precessor of the Slovenian national team facing (independent) opponent's full senior teams. Especially, the match vs France in 1921 is seen as the historic birth of Slovenian national team football, see further article. It tells also much about history. The "Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes" has just been created in 1918 after the brokedown of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and again Serbs, Croats and Slovenes were forced into a single state, besides their national interests. The tour of the France national team, makes this even more evident, as they played Slovenia, Croatia and Serbia in 3 separate matches, instead of facing a unified "Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes"-team. The lack of independence is also the reason here why the France FA (FFF) haven't count these matches as official, but against Slovenia they started 8 players who got further (and official) caps. From the 3 uncapped players we have the reserve keeper of the 1920 Olympics. I'd also like to add the matches vs Croatia and Serbia, but couldn't find yet decent sources. Maybe, these matches are also seen different in Croatia and Serbia, but for Slovenia it really mattered. That's why I created 1921-06-23 vs France
Also, I did 1968-04-03 vs Austria like mentioned in the article. Here I may have been a bit over the topic, as the Slovenian team consisted also several "naturalized" players from different Yugoslavian states playing for Slovenian clubs. But in the end, it was a selection of NK Maribor and Olimpija which have been the only two Slovenian clubs in the 1st Yugoslavian league by that time. Besides Branko Oblak none have seen (later) full Yugoslavian caps.
On the Austrian side, we only have players who collect further (and official) Austrian senior caps.
So, I followed the article here and listed also this match. I'd also like to add the 1956 match vs China, but as we aren't much progressed with Chinese data from the 50s wanted to give it a wait to be better able to value the China line-up.
As we have the possibility to list all these matches as "non-FIFA", we can make it clear, that these aren't official matches for different reasons. Still, it has been matches from two full senior national teams of states which were independent (opponents) or became independent later (Slovenia). Thanks to the "non-FIFA"-section users can make their own conclussions.
What I learnt from your post, is that I won't investigate further here, and overall, not taking in account (possible) inner-yugoslavian matches like the 1945 Yugoslav Football Tournament, or similiar matches.
When you have such topics, never hesitate to contact me, either here on my wall or by personal message.